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Ron: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Stereo Geeks, a bi-weekly pop culture podcast, and weekly newsletter. Today, we’re reviewing Spider-Noir. I’m one of your hosts, Ron, a pop culture critic and managing editor at Women Write About Comics, now on hiatus. 

Mon: And I’m Mon, your other host. I’m an entertainment writer with bylines in Bam Smack Pow and Huffpost, to name a few. Spider-Noir came out a couple of weeks ago, so this episode will have spoilers. 

Ron: Before we start our episode, we would like to acknowledge that the land we are recording on is the traditional territory of many nations, including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishnabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples. It is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. We also acknowledge that Toronto is covered by Treaty 13 with the Mississaugas of the Credit.

Mon: While we are making this land acknowledgement, we understand that this is not enough and that positive action is required by the people of Canada to make substantive change for the Indigenous nations and communities whose lands we now reside on.

[Music]

Mon: There’s been talk of a Spider-Man Noir show/film, something or other, ever since Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. 

Ron: People loved the character in the film. Specifically how Nicolas Cage voiced him. I absolutely love Noir, and when the rumours of a spin-off began, I couldn’t wait to see it. 

Mon: Yes, but then the rumours just dragged on forever. I didn’t think anything would come of it in the end. But lo and behold, we suddenly have Spider-Noir. That too on Amazon, for some reason.

Ron: Confusing, for sure. Now, in the comics, Peter Parker is Spider-Man Noir, a 1930s version of Spidey. However, due to licensing agreements between Marvel and Sony, Peter Parker apparently can’t be seen on-screen doing certain things, so it’s Ben Reilly who is Spider-Noir in this show. Also, apparently, this show is not a direct spin-off of the Spider-Verse films, but an entirely different universe. 

Mon: Wow! Can this be any more confusing?

Ron: Indeed. But all that is inconsequential. We wanted to see more Spider-Noir, and now we’ve got a whole 8-episode show. Maybe this is just the first season, who knows? I couldn’t be happier!

Mon: Spider-Noir was created by Oren Uziel and Steve Lightfoot. The episodes were divided among four directors, with a number of staff and episode writers.

Ron: Spider-Noir follows Ben Reilly, played by Nicolas Cage, in his very first TV lead role. Which is amazing, considering he’s 62. He does a great job, which we’ll come back to. Ben is a washed up private investigator who hasn’t overcome a great loss. He’s down-on-his-luck, and can’t even pay his loyal secretary, Janet Ruiz (played by Karen Rodriguez). 

Mon: But then a tantalizing new case involving the Mayor of New York, the crime boss Silvermane – played by Brendan Gleeson – and a mysterious singer, Cat Hardy (played by Li Jun Li) falls into Spidey’s lap. Suddenly, Spidey has his web full.

Ron: The show also includes Spidey’s good friend, Joe “Robbie” Robertson, played by Lamorne Morris. The recurring cast includes Abraham Popoola, Jack Huston, and Lukas Haas. 

Mon: There are so many interesting and arresting characters and actors in this show, we’d be here forever if we tried to list them all out. 

Mon: And now, it’s time for spoilers. 

Ron: Let’s talk about the characters, because we can’t pick a favourite! 

Mon: In all honesty, I loved all the characters. I’m not even joking – I loved everyone. They were all so amazing. Each actor brought a distinct personality and unique angle to their character. I loved how some of them were larger-than-life, while others were understated. And they all knew exactly what they should be. I even liked the bad guys. 

Ron: It is impossible to choose a favourite on this show. But, of course, Ben’s secretary Janet Ruiz has the kind of personality we love. While all the characters are incredible to watch, I absolutely adored Karen Rodriguez’s Janet. She is such a sweetheart! Also, I love me a sarcastic lady who knows her worth but is still loyal to a fault.

Mon: I love her! Oh my word. She was my absolute favourite in this show. The moment she came on screen with her snarky comebacks, I was like, ‘this gal is gonna be my favourite.’ And she held on to that title – what with being the smarty-pants with a heart of gold. 

Ron: The ladies in this show are something else. Li Jun Li, who was a bit of a scene-stealer for me in Sinners, plays such a sultry, vivacious, enigmatic gangster’s moll in Spider-Noir. She’s a great choice for Cat Hardy; hard as nails, yet vulnerable. Easy to believe as a temptress and a puppet. You can see why everyone is taken with her.

Mon: I was charmed and stunned by Li Jun Li. She was a standout for me in Sinners, as well. But here, with a much larger role, I was gobsmacked. She always keeps the viewer at arm’s length, so we’re left to figure her out. All the while, we’re drawn in by her anguish and desperation.

Ron: You can’t trust her, but you want to. And that’s the charm of Cat Hardy. She is in a difficult situation and she’ll do pretty much anything to get out of it. Unfortunately, poor Ben becomes the pawn in that game. When he seems to really care for her. I do think Cat felt something for Ben, but her heart belongs to Flint, and she was always going to sacrifice Ben for him. 

Mon: Not gonna lie – I thought Cat and Ben’s romance was happening! I fell for it. I saw their chemistry. His goo-goo eyes. She had the sweetest smile when she was teasing him. I thought, yep, this is it. I love their love. I was crushed when I realized Cat was using Ben. The least convincing part of the show was them antagonizing each other. Cage and Li seemed so comfortable with each other. Another run at the romance in Season 2, perhaps?

Ron: Well, Spider-Man and Black-Cat have an… interesting relationship in the comics. The show continues in that vein. Despite her rigmarole with Ben, I do like that Cat got revenge on Silvermane though. If anyone should have, it was her.

Mon: I agree. I would have been upset if someone else got to kill Silvermane instead of Cat. 

Ron: I was waiting for the show to let me down, but honestly, Spider-Noir always stuck the landing!

Mon: Now, the show is set in the 1930s, and features a cast of characters familiar to the Spider-Man universe. But, of course, they’re different versions given the era and setting. I do wish they’d kept Cat’s name as Felicia Hardy though, like in the comics. 

Ron: Yes, but maybe Felicia wasn’t right for the period. This is a very noir story. So expect tropes, but with updated sensibilities. For example, both our leading love interest and Ben’s secretary are women of colour. Ben’s best friend is a Black man. And none of these characters are just their identity–they’re so much more than that.

Mon: Which brings us to Robbie Robertson. 

Ron: Lamorne Morris’ Robbie has a huge role. I didn’t realise he would and I am glad for it. You need someone who knows your hero’s backstory, and that he’s a superhero. Robbie is Spider-Noir’s biggest champion, even though Ben doesn’t believe he did much good. 

Mon: I know Morris has second billing, but I really didn’t expect him to play such a significant role in the show. And he’s effortless as this wise-cracking sidekick character. But again, the creative team provide him with so much more depth. He’s witty and wily, trying to get his job done with little white lies (he doesn’t work at the Bugle anymore, but the cops don’t need to know that). He’s really smart, but I do love that he’s so supportive of Ben. But, he’s not a yes-man. Robbie’s always pushing for Ben to be the hero he used to be. I think we could all do with a friend like Robbie.

Ron: I also love that the show focuses on Robbie’s work as a journalist. We have several scenes of him researching stories, pitching stories, taking photographs, and writing, of course. We also see how he has to deal with editorial over-reach, and how he finally gets to own his stories’ narratives. He is the only Black man at the Daily Bugle and his struggle to be seen is sadly still relevant.

Mon: The secondary characters are key players in the story. While not always agents of their own destiny, they are vital to moving the story along. They also uncover clues, and bring unique personalities to this universe. Ben Reilly is leading this show, but he’s not the only fully-formed character here.

Ron: And that extends to the supporting characters, as well. You feel the desperation of Flint Marko, played by Jack Huston, who’s living life with his clock ticking down. He’s got these powers but they’re making him a pariah from society, and the woman he’s allowed himself to love. He feels like he has no choice in the way he lives the remainder of his presumably short life. Silvermane appears to be his only salvation, and because he’s so desperate, Flint can’t see how he’s being manipulated.

Mon: And then there’s Abraham Popoola’s Lonnie Lincoln. He served his country and then he ends up living in a slum, alongside other veterans like himself. The plight of vets, especially Black vets, is woven into the story. 

Ron: Lonnie was an incredible character. He’s struggling just as much as Flint is, but he’s also questioning how he’s had to spend his life. He went to war for a country that treats him no better, in fact worse, than before he was a war hero.

Mon: I have to talk about Dirk Leyden. Played by Andrew Lewis Caldwell, I thought he was going to be a one-and-done episodic villain. But then he came back, and he is, somehow, the most memorable character on the show for me. 

Ron: Dirk comes in halfway into the show and I cannot stop thinking about him!

Mon: I think why Dirk is so memorable is because you do not see a chubby, schlubby, off-putting and annoying character like this taken seriously in a Hollywood production. And definitely not in genre fare. Dirk was meant to be the butt of all the jokes.

Ron: In any other show, Dirk would’ve been the comedic relief. 

Mon: Right? But he’s at the end of, maybe, a couple of jokes here. Instead, he’s this grandiose, aspiring actor, who quotes Shakespeare. Dirk was just so enigmatic! Unlike Flint – who is cowed, and Lonnie - who is desperate; Dirk believes he’s in control. Who’d have thunk it? There’s Sandman, the handsome one, and Tombstone, the strong one – but the guy with the most confidence is… Dirk!

Ron: Yeah. Dirk is creepy; he’s definitely not a nice guy. He is absolutely the worst person to have his electricity powers. And yet, when he speaks, he makes so much sense. As you mentioned, he’s constantly quoting Shakespeare. It’s astounding to watch this subway driver, a job that’s an integral part of daily life, yet he’s a man who is used to being overlooked. And all the while, Dirk is so erudite. And observant! He sees things that Flint and Lonnie refuse to see. Like Silvermane’s manipulations; and that Ben was in France. He’s an incredible addition to this show and Caldwell does a spectacular job.

Ron: You know, I didn’t expect to find the ‘monsters’, Flint, Lonnie, and Dirk, so fascinating. They had such distinct personalities, and very sharp chemistry. I felt worried for them; well, maybe not Dirk that much. He could handle himself.

Mon: Let’s not forget about the big bad himself. I did not know Brendan Gleeson was going to be here. That too as a classic, scenery-chewing villain. Man, he was fun to watch!

Ron: Brendan Gleeson was enjoying himself in Spider-Noir. He’s playing Silvermane as an out-and-out baddie. There is nothing redeeming about this man. And yet! He opens up eventually about the circumstances of his life before he became a super-rich gangster. 

Mon: Goes back to the same thing. Layers.

Ron: Exactly. Silvermane tells Cat that he had nothing, less than nothing. He had to fight for every scrap he ever got and that’s what gave him the determination to keep climbing, no matter who he left behind. It made him ruthless and a master manipulator. You can see how he wields kindness as a weapon. When Flint had nowhere to go, Silvermane took him in; he even made room for Lonnie. He was ready to make them comfortable when the world was terrified of them. You can easily see how Silvermane got to the position he did. But his comeuppance was also very satisfying to watch.

Ron: Let us not forget the main attraction: Nicolas Cage. I feel like I haven’t seen him in a while, even though I know he’s been busy. I honestly think Cage was born to play Spider-Noir.

Mon: Oh yeah! Let’s talk about Nicolas Cage. I was concerned – not gonna lie. He’s cultivated a reputation for himself off late for being unhinged. And I just couldn’t see how that would translate to Spider-Noir. Surprisingly, it does!

Ron: Turns out, Spider-Noir needed some unhinged! I watched part of an interview where Cage was talking about the physicality of Ben, and Spider-people. Apparently, back when Sam Raimi was making his Spidey films, Cage had been offered the Green Goblin role, that has now become synonymous with Willem Dafoe. Cage had mentioned to Raimi that there should be a scene of Peter crawling around the ceiling, getting used to his powers. They didn’t do that in those films. So when Cage was speaking with the creators for this show, he mentioned it again and they worked together on those physical elements.

Mon: No way! I did not know this. That’s so exciting!

Ron: Also, part of the inspiration for the horror-esque moves was because Cage is a huge fan of The Fly and Jeff Goldblum’s transformation scenes in that film. So he brought some of that into this show. Which is why we see those tics that Ben struggles to control when he first gets his powers.

Mon: Well, that does explain the Cronenberg-esque body horror in the show. It’s a light touch, thankfully.

Ron: Yes, and Cage completely leans into it. The weirder the better, with this man. He understands the strangeness of Ben’s existence, and imbues that desire for freedom into Ben. So, by the end, when everyone gets to be free of their powers but Ben, you feel bad for him, even though we all know New York needs the Spider.

Mon: Yep. My heart broke for Ben, even though we knew that would happen. That’s how compelling Cage is. I cannot get over how charmed I was by him. Like seriously. I was so drawn to Ben Reilly. I understood his pain and his apathy for life. But also how he projects his smarts, and uses his quirks to get by. He’s got comfortable chemistry with all the other actors, and really knows how to play into the witty repartee with the other characters. I am so surprised, but I really liked Cage in this role. I genuinely enjoyed the versatility of this performance.

Ron: I love the little details Cage brings into his performance; the way he’s copying the actors Ben watches, and then those affectations slip out during Ben’s real-life conversations. You and I have been quoting film and TV dialogue for so long, it’s become part of our vocabulary. And I loved seeing a character on-screen who does what we do. Except, he has superpowers, and we don’t.

Mon: We have superpowers. We just don’t know what they are yet.

Mon: What about the story? I found it compelling. And layered. There are wheels within wheels to how the narrative begins, and where it goes. We wouldn’t expect anything less from a noir. And thankfully, Spider-Noir delivers.

Ron: We were always going to love Spider-Noir. But did the story have to go so hard? It’s not just a mystery show. It’s a story about profound loss and grief, and the fear of loss. It’s about power and control, and who gets to be in charge of their own destiny. It’s also about war and its atrocities, and the lasting impacts of post-traumatic stress disorder. On top of all that, it’s about race and segregation. About how much harder people of colour have to work to get even an iota of the opportunities that their white counterparts take for granted.

Mon: And see, those are the layers that make Spider-Noir so immersive. Stories are never just one thing. And if they are, they’re doing it wrong. I am gobsmacked by how the creative team made this multi-layered story, while keeping the noir tropes intact. And still updating the sensibilities somewhat. 

Ron: Yes, Spider-Noir reminds me why we love superhero stories so much. It can tell audiences about the world we live in, while existing in a fantastical universe. The fact that this show had a leading man like Nicolas Cage and still made the space to spotlight all these other characters and their stories, that’s what I love, and expect from this genre.

Mon: I like that the show doesn’t lean too heavily on references. Yes, if you already are a fan of Spider-Man, you’re going to love all the homages to the source material. But, anyone with an interest in an innovative investigative story can get in here and enjoy the show. Or maybe I’m biased!

Ron: I think you can go into Spider-Noir with zero knowledge of the Spider-Man stories in the comics or films. Yes, if you know that Flint is Sandman and Lonnie is Tombstone, two well-known Spider-villains, that’s very fun. But you don’t need to know that to watch or enjoy this show.

Mon: You mentioned that Peter Parker isn’t allowed to do some stuff on screen, so hence we’ve got Ben Reilly in the show. But we know that this is actually Peter Parker. They categorically tell us that Ben changed his name. 

Ron: Ohhhh yes, that’s interesting. They never mention what his real name is, but you’re right, he probably is Peter Parker.

Mon: One thing I wanted to touch on. In the second half of the show, we learn that when Ben was bitten by the mutant spider experiment, he didn’t just get powers. He became a spider–internally anyway. We see his body trying to get into spidery formations. He has tics and quirks. These are things he had to unlearn or hide. It reminded me a lot of the film I Swear. I wonder if the creative team was trying to liken Ben’s condition to something like Tourette’s Syndrome.

Ron: I thought the same thing. Especially when he was talking about having to control his tics, and how he had to relearn speech from watching movies. Maybe we’re making the connection because we watched I Swear recently, but it’s interesting to think of the spider-powers as a kind of disability. Might explain why Ben doesn’t see himself as a heroic person; because being himself with powers is a daily struggle. I mean, at one point, he even calls himself a coward, despite spending years putting himself in danger for others.

Mon: Exactly, right? Even the way he reacts to his spider-sense. He keeps touching the feeling, but ignoring it. It made me think a lot of what someone with a disorder might do. It’s a fascinating take on the Spider-Man myth. 

Ron: It’s all those little things that make this show really stand out among Marvel properties. So, if it isn’t already obvious, we loved Spider-Noir.

Mon: I didn’t just love Spider-Noir, I think I’m in love with this show. 

Ron: But I will say that we probably went in wanting to love it? The Spider-Verse films are very dear to us. We literally have Spider-Verse art from local Canadian artists all over our walls. We have stickers, magnets, action figures. We love that universe, and its myriad colourful, and colourless, characters.

Mon: Aye. But, we don’t go into things blinkered. We are critics, after all. And I am always ready to be critical. But I was swept away by this show from the get-go. 

Ron: We specifically chose to watch the black and white version. Because duh… the whole gag with Spider-Noir in the Spider-Verse films is that he can’t see colour. I’m not sure why a colour version was even made? Apparently, there’s now some hate being directed towards the colour version, so I won’t add to that discourse, but black and white is the way to go.

Mon: Exactly. And the black and white version leant itself perfectly to the vibe of the show. I just read that some BTS info about the colour version was shared by the production team. Screenrant wrote that the team always only planned to shoot in black and white. The sets apparently were colour-coded to show up in greyscale. But then a studio, they didn’t mention which, asked for colour. So they had to do an additional colour pass for the technicolor version. 

Ron: Wait, so we watched the OG version? 

Mon: And vision. When you think noir stories, it’s always black and white, with a struggling detective and his chipper and cutting secretary. 

Ron: Plus, his right-hand person, the femme fatale, the precocious kid, and the gangster with his henchmen. This show has all of those tropes.

Mon: But more than that, the creative team shot the show with the hallmarks of noir fare. The dutch angles, the 1/3rd shot, the split diopter shots with the forced perspective that mess with our minds. Spider-Noir is stylized to evoke those sensibilities. But it’s about super-powered beings. I could squee with joy at how much this show was exactly what I wanted it to be. 

Ron: Yes! The camera angles and the directing choices were on point for this show. And really works for the black and white version. I felt like I was back in time, watching a James Cagney movie.

Mon: One thing that I must point out is that I love how Spider-Noir just casually had fat characters in the story. And they’re not just in the background. They’re main players. While there’s a hint of fat-shaming in some of the dialogue, the fat characters aren’t the butt of the jokes. What a surprise to see that in a Marvel show. 

Ron: Fat representation; so rare!

Ron: Let’s talk about the music. Because that theme song! It’s to die for. I’m hearing it in my dreams. The song is called ‘Saving Grace’, and was written by Oak Felder and Sebastian Kole, and performed by Kirby.

Mon: The moment the theme song came on, I was like, they’ve got the vibe right. And they carried that throughout the show. These are my jams, bro! I love this kind of music. I cannot wait to get my hands on this soundtrack. 

Ron: Aside from the delightful theme song, there are lots of classic musical gems, like ‘Dream A Little Dream Of Me’, that I couldn’t get enough of. This is a soundtrack I’m going to be listening to for a while.

Ron: Now, we loved this show, but we aren’t blinkered about its faults. My first criticism isn’t even of the show; I can’t understand how we live in a universe where Spider-Noir gets a live-action outing before Miles Morales, aka, the best Spidey!

Mon: I know! It’s unbelievable. Actually it isn’t, is it? It’s just frustrating. You see this perfect encapsulation of fan-service and source material for Spider-Noir, and you can’t help but wonder why it’s always so hard to replicate when the characters are not white.

Ron: Indeed. My other criticism is that Nicolas Cage looked a lot older than his love interests. Amanda Schull, who plays Ruby, is around 14 years younger and she looks it. Li Jun Li, I don’t know how old she is, but she looks very young opposite Cage. The chemistry was definitely there between the actors but the age difference was hard to overlook.

Mon: I noticed that too, but it didn’t bother me too much. He wasn’t robbing the cradle or anything. Li Jun Li is very young-looking though, but again – is the romance really there? Ben’s obviously taken by her, but Cat’s really just using him. 

Ron: When we watched the very first episode and saw the opening credits, I admit, I got really worried. Because the opening credits included shots of rather terrifying looking creatures. I was so concerned that we would have to contend with spider-looking people, that I struggled to enjoy the show. Fortunately, the shot of the scary spider-face turned out to not be a huge problem. The character was only there for a couple of scenes; but my fear of what was coming was so overwhelming that I couldn’t get comfortable. I wish they hadn’t put that creature in the opening credits.

Mon: Yeah, I was certainly concerned by the body horror. But, none of it was prolonged or gratuitous. But I think it was smart of them to foreshadow the body horror in the credits. You’re prepared, and not freaked out when it happens. I wonder if it’s scarier in the colour version. I feel like the black and white version flattened the textures a bit. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not. 

Mon: Final thoughts on Spider-Noir? 

Ron: I adored this show. I wanted to love it and I definitely did. I had a very specific idea of what Spider-Noir would be about and the show was exactly what I expected. That is a wonderful thing. It perfectly encapsulated the aesthetics of that era, down to the way each shot was framed and presented. The characters were so easy to fall in love with. The story was convoluted in the best way possible. Everything matters and it’s all tied together. The ending was so deeply satisfying. I actually love that there are two versions of the show, because we get to experience it in different ways whenever we watch it.

Ron: But what I really loved about Spider-Noir was that the actors gave 120% in these roles. And we were rewarded with extremely well-rounded and believable characters. Considering the crazy events happening in this show, that’s a huge achievement.

Mon: I was so worried that they were going to ruin Spider-Noir. And then I just fell head over heels in love with the show from the start. It captures the nostalgia of watching noir films of yore, but carries the sensibilities of the present. There’s nothing lascivious or gratuitous. The few female characters are powerhouses. The racial undertones of the 30s are touched on and navigated. The music is sublime. Nicolas Cage is excellent, surrounded by a cast that seems to have been born to play these outsized and unique characters. The story is layered, the cliffhangers are stunning. I’m so in love. Now I want more. 

Ron: We could talk about this show forever, but that’s all for our review of Spider-Noir.

Mon: Join us in two weeks for our review of the new Masters of the Universe film.

Ron: You can listen to Stereo Geeks on stereogeeks.ca, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don’t forget to rate us, and leave us a review; it helps other listeners find us.

Mon: And, get more exclusive content when you subscribe to our newsletter on our website, and follow us on Instagram, @stereogeeks_podcast. Plus, we’re also on BlueSky, @stereogeekspodcast.bsky.social. 

Ron: The Stereo Geeks logo was created using Canva. Our music is courtesy Audionautix. 

Mon: See you next time.